João Marto

13 August 1917

13 AugFirst-handPartlyInterrogation2 km awaySeers' words overheard

English

1^st – On 19 August, who were you grazing the flock with at Valinhos?

– I was with Francisco and Lúcia.

2^nd – Was Jacinta present too?

– She wasn't.

3^rd – Did Lúcia ask you to go and fetch her?

– She did.

4^th – What was it she said to you?

– She told me to go and fetch Jacinta, because it seemed that Our Lady was going to appear.

5^th – And did you go and fetch her at once?

– No; I didn't want to go, but Lúcia gave me a vintém to go, and then I went.

- 6^th – Was Jacinta at home?
– She wasn't; I only found my mother there; my sister was at the door of Lúcia's house.
7^th – Was she willing to go to Valinhos?
– She was.
8^th – When you arrived, what were Lúcia and Francisco doing?
– They were sitting down, but they got up when we arrived.
9^th – What did they do then?
– Lúcia told Jacinta to look towards where it seemed Our Lady was to appear. Jacinta started looking in that direction.
10^th – Did you all kneel down?
– No; everyone was standing. Lúcia did not kneel.

2 November 1917 Continuation of the interrogation of João

- 11^th – Did you see anything?
– I saw nothing. I only heard Lúcia speaking with Our Lady near the holm-oak shrub.
12^th – Did you hear what Our Lady said?
– I didn't.
13^th – What was it Lúcia said to the Lady?
– She asked her what she had come here to do.
14^th – Did you hear the Lady's answer?
– I didn't, but Lúcia waited a little while.
15^th – Did Lúcia ask more questions?
– She did. She spoke again, but I don't remember what she said, except for the last question, which was whether she would bring my Manuel back here.
16^th – Didn't Lúcia tell you afterwards what the Lady had said to her?
– She told me the same day near the holm-oak shrub, straight away on the way back, that if she had not been taken to the town (Vila Nova de Ourém) on the 13th, the miracle would not be so well known. 17^th – What time was it when Our Lady appeared?
– It was almost night.
18^th – Did you stay at the place much longer?
– Francisco and Jacinta went off and Lúcia and I stayed. Francisco and Jacinta came back and told me afterwards that they had gone to pray there, but I stayed some way off minding the sheep and didn't hear them pray.

Português (original)

1^a – A 19 de agosto, com quem andavas tu a apascentar o gado nos Valinhos?

– Andava com o Francisco e a Lúcia.

2^a – A Jacinta também estava presente?

– Não estava.

3^a – A Lúcia pediu-te que a fosses chamar?

– Pediu.

4^a – O que foi que ela te disse?

– Disse-me que fosse chamar a Jacinta, porque parecia que ia aparecer Nossa Senhora.

5^a – E tu foste logo chamá-la?

– Não; eu não queria ir, mas a Lúcia deu-me um vintém para que eu fosse, e então fui.

- 6^a – A Jacinta estava em casa?
– Não estava; só encontrei lá a mãe, minha irmã estava à porta da casa da Lúcia.
7^a – Ela quis ir de boa vontade aos Valinhos?
– Quis.
8^a – Quando chegaram, o que estavam fazendo a Lúcia e o Francisco?
– Estavam sentados, mas levantaram-se quando chegámos.
9^a – O que fizeram depois?
– A Lúcia disse à Jacinta que olhasse para onde parecia que devia aparecer Nossa Senhora. A Jacinta pôs-se a olhar para esse lado.
10^a – Puseram-se todos de joelhos?
– Não; todos estavam de pé. A Lúcia não ajoelhou.

2 de novembro de 1917 Continuação do interrogatório do João

- 11^a – Viste alguma coisa?
– Não vi nada. Só ouvi a Lúcia falar com Nossa Senhora ao pé da carrasqueira.
12^a – Ouviste o que Nossa Senhora disse?
– Não ouvi.
13^a – O que foi que a Lúcia disse à Senhora?
– Perguntou-lhe o que é que ela cá vinha fazer.
14^a – Ouviste a resposta da Senhora?
– Não ouvi, mas a Lúcia esteve um bocadito à espera.
15^a – A Lúcia fez mais perguntas?
– Fez. Tornou a falar, mas não me lembro do que disse, a não ser da última pergunta que foi se ela trazia cá o meu Manuel.
16^a – A Lúcia não te contou depois o que a Senhora lhe tinha dito?
– Disse-me no mesmo dia ao pé da carrasqueira, logo de caminho, que, se não fosse levada para a aldeia (Vila Nova de Ourém) no dia 13, o milagre não seria tão conhecido.
17^a – Que horas eram quando Nossa Senhora apareceu?
– Era quase noite.
18^a – Demoraram-se ainda muito no sítio?
– O Francisco e a Jacinta vieram-se embora e ficámos eu e a Lúcia. O Francisco e a Jacinta voltaram e disseram-me depois que tinham ido rezar lá, mas eu fiquei longe a guardar as ovelhas e não as ouvi rezar.

DCF Seleção, Doc. 22 (= DCF I, Doc. 17) · interrogation · 2 Nov 1917 (3 months later)View scans (2)Link

13 August 1917

13 AugSecond-handPartlySworn deposition2 km awayThunder / noiseSeers' words overheard

As told by Olímpia de Jesus

English

When João came home in the evening, his mother asked if he had seen anything. He answered that he saw Lúcia, Francisco and Jacinta on their knees by the holm oak, heard Lúcia speak, and when Lúcia said: – “She's going away now, Jacinta” – he heard a roar like a rocket, but saw nothing. And he added that his eyes even hurt from looking up into the air. He was then eleven years old.

Português (original)

Quando o João veio à noite, a mãe perguntou se tinha visto alguma coisa. Ele respondeu que viu a Lúcia, o Francisco e a Jacinta de joelhos, ao pé da azinheira, ouviu a Lúcia falar e quando a Lúcia disse: – “Ela já lá vai, ó Jacinta” – ouviu uma rugida como de um foguete, mas não viu nada. E acrescentava que até lhe doía os olhos de olhar para o ar. Contava então onze anos de idade.

DCF Seleção, Doc. 80 (= DCF II, Doc. 4) · interrogation · 28 Sep 1923 (6 years later)View scan Link