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DCF Seleção, Doc. 15 (= DCF I, Doc. 46)
Doc. 15
Doc. 15
1917-10-19, Aljustrel
1917-10-19, Aljustrel
Publ.: DCF, I - Doc. 46 (questionnaire) and Doc. 47 (answers)
Publ.: DCF, I - Doc. 46 (questionário) e Doc. 47 (respostas)
Interrogation of Jacinta
Interrogatório da Jacinta
1 - How old is she? Whose child is she?
1 - Quantos anos tem? De quem é filho?
2 - What were they doing when they saw the Lady?
2 - O que faziam quando viram a Senhora?
3 - Is it true that the boy chased the Image away with stones?
3 - É verdade o menino correr a Imagem à pedra?
4 - How did the Image appear?
4 - Como apareceu a Imagem?
5 - What clothes was she wearing and what did she say?
5 - Que vestidos trazia e o que disse?
2 - It was midday and they were minding the sheep when they saw a Lady dressed in white, with her hands joined, with some white beads strung over her arm. Her face was white; she has nothing to compare it with; only in height she says she was the same as Virgínia3 – (The girl is 12 years old) 1.10 m; that she had appeared to them on top of the holm oak.
2º - Era meio dia e guardavam as ovelhas quando viram uma Senhora vestida de branco, de mãos postas com umas contas brancas enfiadas no braço. O rosto era branco, não tem com quem possa comparar; somente na altura diz que era igual a Virgínia3 – (A rapariga tem 12 anos) 1 m e 10; que lhes aparecera em cima da azinheira.
That her brother had thrown a stone at the sheep and had passed close to her.
Que o irmão que atirara com uma pedra às ovelhas e passara junto dela.
6 - Did they all hear?
6 - Ouviram todos?
6 - She hears. That she had said they should go there 6 times, until 6 months were up, and that afterwards she would say what she wanted, and she had disappeared.
6 - Ouve. Que dissera que fossem lá 6 vezes até fazer 6 meses e que depois diria o que queria e desaparecera.
7 - Had they been to Mass the previous Sunday? And where?
7 - She goes to Mass every Sunday; the day of the apparition was a weekday and she had not been to Mass.
8 - Where do they usually go to Mass?
8 - She goes to Mass at Fátima
9 - How is the Image dressed in the chapel where they usually go to Mass?
9 - That she knows that in the church there is the Lady of the Rosary, but she has no beads, nor does she have a white dress.
10 - Had they heard any sermon or homily about Our Lady of Lourdes*?
10 - She does not know.
11 - Did they often go to Mass, even on weekdays?
11 - She goes to Mass only on Sunday, because her mother does not let her.
12 - What did they do after seeing the Lady?
12 - They came home only at night and said that they had seen the Lady from Heaven, for that is what she had called herself.
13 - What clothes did she wear the 1st time and the other times?
13 - Always the same dress.
14 - Did she say why she came on the 13th?
[...]
15 - Did they always see the spots on the sun?
15 - Only the last time did they see the Child Jesus and Saint Joseph and Our Lady in the sun. But Lúcia saw better.
16 - How was she on the holm oak? Was she smiling or was she sad?
16 - She was serious.
17 - What colour was her dress and how did she hold her arms?
17 - Dress all white, tight at the bottom, hands raised.
18 - Were they afraid when they saw the Lady?
18 - She was afraid the 1st time; the Lady said she should not be afraid, that she would do no harm.
19 - Whom did they tell that they had seen her?
19 - She told her father and brother that she had seen the Lady.
20 - When did they speak to any priest about the matter?
20 - She did not tell.
21 - What did he say to them?
21 - *She does not remember. *
22 - What did Our Lady say the 1st time?
the 2nd
the 3rd
" 4th
7 - Tinham ido à missa no domingo anterior? E onde?
7 - Vai todos os domingos à missa; no dia da aparição era de semana e não tinha ido à missa.
8 - Onde costumam ir à missa?
8 - Vai à missa à Fátima
9 - Que veste a Imagem da capela onde costumam ir à missa?
9 - Que sabe que na igreja existe a Senhora do Rosário mas não tem contas, nem tem um vestido branco.
10 - Tinham ouvido algum sermão sobre Nossa Senhora de Lourdes ou prática?
10 - Não sabe.
11 - Costumavam ir muitas vezes à missa mesmo de semana?
11 - Vai à missa só ao domingo; porque a mãe não a deixa.
12 - O que fizeram depois de verem a Senhora?
12 - Só à noite vieram para casa e disseram que tinham visto a Senhora do Céu, pois assim ela se chamara.
13 - Que fatos trazia ela da 1ª vez e das outras vezes?
13 - Sempre o mesmo vestido.
14 - Disse porque vinha no dia 13?
[...]
15 - Viram sempre as manchas no sol?
15 - Só na última vez é que viram no sol o Menino Jesus e São José e Nossa Senhora. Mas a Lúcia viu melhor.
16 - Como estava ela na Azinheira? Ria-se ou estava triste?
16 - Estava séria.
17 - De que cor era o vestido e como trazia os braços?
17 - Vestido todo branco, em baixo apertado, mãos erguidas.
18 - Tiveram medo quando viram a Senhora?
18 - Teve medo da 1ª vez; ela disse que não tivesse medo, que não fazia mal.
19 - A quem disseram que a tinham visto?
19 - Disse ao pai e irmão que tinha visto a Senhora.
20 - Quando falaram com qualquer padre sobre o assunto?
20 - Não disse.
21 - O que lhes disse este?
21 - *Não se lembra. *
22 - O que disse Nossa Senhora da 1ª vez?
da 2ª
da 3ª
“ 4ª
" 5th
“ 5a
" 6th
“ 6a
22 - On Saint Anthony's Day (2nd time) she said that we should learn to read.
22 - Dia de Santo Antonio (2a vez) disse que aprendesse a gente a ler.
Her father says there were some 50 to 60 people.
Diz o pai que estavam umas 50 a 60 pessoas.
The last time - Lúcia asked what she wanted and She said - That the war would end on the 13th - When she reached Heaven.
Da última vez - A Lúcia perguntou o que ela queria e Ela disse - Que acabava a guerra no dia 13 - Quando chegasse ao Céu.
– That if the people would not mend their ways the world would end; if they would not mend their ways the war would end.
– Que o povo se não quisesse emendar acabava o mundo; se não se quisesse emendar acabava a guerra.
She heard no more. The Lady was sad when she said this.
Não ouviu mais. A Senhora estava triste quando dizia isto.
23 - Are they poor or comfortably off?
23 - São pobres ou remediadas?
[...]
[...]
24 - Do they usually pray the rosary* every day?
24 - Costumam rezar o terço todos os dias?
24 - They pray the rosary every day.
24 - Todos os dias rezam o terço.
25 - Did they ever hear talk of Our Lady having appeared to soldiers?
25 - Ouviram falar alguma vez em que Nossa Senhora aparecera aos soldados?
25 - She never heard.
25 - Nunca ouviu.
26 - Had the parish priest asked for the rosary to be prayed for the soldiers?
26 - O sr. prior tinha pedido o terço pelos soldados?
26 - That he had.
26 - Que sim.
27 - Can they read, or did they hear it read at home or anywhere else that Our Lady had appeared?
27 - Sabem ler ou ouviram em casa ou em alguma parte ler que Nossa Senhora aparecera?
27 - She had never heard.
27 - Nunca ouvira.
28 - Whom did they first tell that they had seen Our Lady?
28 - A quem disseram pela primeira vez que viram Nossa Senhora?
28 - Parents and brothers and sisters
28 - Pais e irmãos
29 - Who are the parents and what are their names? What do they live on? Age, religious sentiments – Do they pray the rosary at night at home or say grace?
29 - Quem são os pais e como se chamam? De que vivem? Idade, sentimentos religiosos – Rezam o terço à noite em casa ou dão graças?
[...]
[...]
30 - Have they been told and do they know the story of Lourdes or La Salette* or Our Lady of Monserrate?
30 - Têm contado e sabem a história de Lourdes ou La Salette ou Nossa Senhora de Monserrate?
30 - She has not heard
30 - Não ouviu
31 - Are they alcoholics? What did they say to their daughters and to their son?
31 - São alcoólicos? O que disseram às filhas e ao filho?
[...]
[...]
32 - What did the Lady say each of the times?
32 - O que disse a Senhora de cada uma das vezes?
1st.
1a.
2nd.
2a.
3rd.
3a.
4th.
4a.
5th.
5a.
6th.
6a.
32 - [...]
32 - [...]
33 - Did the Lady say at what time she was coming, and on which days?
33 - A Senhora disse a que horas vinha e os dias?
33 - That she was coming at midday.
33 - Que vinha ao meio dia.
34 - The 2nd time, did people go to watch? What did they see?
34 - Da 2ª vez foi gente assistir? O que viram?
34 - Some 50 people went.
34 - Foram umas 50 pessoas.
35 - The 2nd
35 - Da 2ª
The 3rd
Da 3ª
The 4th
Da 4ª
The 5th
Da 5ª
[...]
[...]
36 - What did the Lady want? Did she say what she came for?
36 - O que queria a Senhora? Disse a que vinha?
36 - She never heard the Lady say what she came for. The Lady spoke slowly.
36 - Nunca ouviu dizer à Senhora a que vinha. A Senhora falava devagar.
[37]
[37]
37 - She was not afraid to go there.
37 - Não teve medo de lá ir.
[38]
[38]
[38] Jacinta only went to confession for the first time this year.
[38] A Jacinta só se confessou este ano.
Interrogation of Lúcia
Interrogatório da Lúcia
1 - How old is she? Whose child is she?
1 - Quantos anos tem? De quem é filho?
1 - Lúcia de Jesus - 10 years old, going on 11. Her father António dos Santos Abóbora and Maria Rosa. She has 5 brothers and sisters.
1 - Lúcia de Jesus - 10 anos, vai em 11. O pai António dos Santos Abóbora e Maria Rosa. Tem 5 irmãos.
2 - What were they doing when they saw the Lady?
2 - O que faziam quando viram a Senhora?
2 - I was minding the sheep. There was a flash of lightning and I said: Francisco, we'd better go home, there's a thunderstorm coming. There was another flash of lightning and I looked at the holm-oak shrub and saw a Lady who said: Don't be afraid, I won't do you any harm. She was on top of the holm-oak shrub. The Lady was young, she had a tight skirt. She does not know what a hobble skirt* is, and she has seen ladies with pleated skirts, but the Lady's dress was not like that. She did not notice whether the dress was all in one piece.
2 - Guardava as ovelhas. Deu um relâmpago e eu disse: ó Francisco é melhor irmos embora que vem trovoada. Deu outro relâmpago e olhei para a carrasqueira e vi uma Senhora que disse: Não tenham medo que não faço mal. Estava em cima da carrasqueira. A Senhora era nova, tinha saia justa. Não sabe o que é saia travadinha, e tem visto senhoras com saias às pregas mas o vestido da Senhora não era. Não reparou se o vestido era inteiro.
3 - Is it true that the boy chased the Image away with stones?
3 - É verdade o menino correr a Imagem à pedra?
3 - It was in another year that João had thrown the stone.
3 - Noutro ano é que o João atirara a pedra.
Her mother relates that last year in May another image had appeared and that it was this one that had been chased away. Only a year later was there another apparition.
A mãe conta que o ano passado em maio aparecera outra imagem e que esta é que fora corrida. Só um ano depois é que houve outra aparição.
4 - How did the image appear?
4 - Como apareceu a imagem?
4 - [...]
4 - [...]
5 - What clothes was she wearing and what did she say?
5 - Que vestidos trazia e o que disse?
5 - The first time, that we should not be afraid, that she would do no harm: that we should go there 6 times until 6 months were up, and then she would say what she wanted. Little by little she rose and disappeared.
5 - Primeira vez que não tivéssemos medo que não fazia mal: fosse a gente lá 6 vezes até fazer 6 meses e depois dizia o que queria. Foi a pouco e pouco subindo e desapareceu.
6 - Did they all hear?
6 - [...]
7 - Had they been to Mass the previous Sunday? And where?
7 - She had been to Mass, as it was a Sunday, at the 1st apparition. She appeared at midday.
8 - Where do they usually go to Mass?
8 - [...]
9 - How is the Image dressed in the chapel where they usually go to Mass?
9 - That in the Church there is the Lady of the Rosary, but she has a child and a mantle and no beads, whereas that one had beads.
10 - Had they heard any sermon or homily about Our Lady of Lourdes?
10 - She did not know the story of Lourdes, but a parish priest has now told it to her.
11 - Did they often go to Mass, even on weekdays?
11 - Sometimes.
12 - What did they do after seeing the Lady?
12 - They came away and she told nothing. She had seen something the year before and had told her mother, who scolded her. The first time she saw it was at a place called the Estrumeiras.
13 - What clothes did she wear the first time and the other times?
13 - She always wore the same clothes.
14 - Did she say why she came on the 13th?
14 - See no. 5.
15 - Did they always see the spots on the sun?
15 - I never saw anything in the sun because I only looked at the Lady.
16 - How was she on the holm oak? Was she smiling or was she sad?
16 - She was serious
17 - What colour was her dress and how did she hold her arms?
17 - White - arms raised.
18 - Were they afraid when they saw the Lady?
18 - They were afraid the first time.
19 - Whom did they tell that they had seen her?
19 - She herself did not tell. It was Jacinta who spread it.
20 - When did they speak to any priest about the matter?
20 - She did not tell straight away, but later.
21 - What did he say to them?
21 - *He asked questions and said nothing. *
22 - What did Our Lady say the 1st time?
the 2nd
6 - Ouviram todos?
6 - [...]
7 - Tinham ido à missa no domingo anterior? E onde?
7 - Tinha ido à missa que era domingo na 1ª aparição. Apareceu ao meio-dia.
8 - Onde costumam ir à missa?
8 - [...]
9 - Que veste a Imagem da capela onde costumam ir à missa?
9 - Que na Igreja há a Senhora do Rosário, mas tem um menino, um manto e não tem contas e aquela tinha contas.
10 - Tinham ouvido algum sermão sobre Nossa Senhora de Lourdes ou prática?
10 - Não sabia da história de Lourdes, mas um sr. prior contou-a agora.
11 - Costumavam ir muitas vezes à missa mesmo de semana?
11 - Às vezes.
12 - O que fizeram depois de verem a Senhora?
12 - Vieram embora e não contou nada. Tinha visto o outro ano e tinha contado à mãe e ela ralhou-lhe. A primeira vez que vira foi num sítio chamado as Estrumeiras.
13 - Que fatos trazia ela da primeira e das outras vezes?
13 - Trazia sempre o mesmo fato.
14 - Disse porque vinha no dia 13?
14 - Vid. nº 5.
15 - Viram sempre as manchas no sol?
15 - Nunca vi nada no sol porque só olhava para a Senhora.
16 - Como estava ela na Azinheira? Ria-se ou estava triste?
16 - Estava séria
17 - De que cor era o vestido e como trazia os braços?
17 - Branco - braços erguidos.
18 - Tiveram medo quando viram a Senhora?
18 - Tiveram medo da primeira vez.
19 - A quem disseram que a tinham visto?
19 - Esta não disse. A Jacinta é que espalhou.
20 - Quando falaram com qualquer padre sobre o assunto?
20 - Não contou logo, mas sim mais tarde.
21 - O que lhes disse este?
21 - *Fez perguntas e não disse nada. *
22 - O que disse Nossa Senhora da 1ª vez?
da 2ª
the 3rd
da 3a
" 4th
“ 4a
" 5th
“ 5a
" 6th
“ 6a
22 - The 2nd time: That we should keep going there and should learn to read.
22 - Da 2a vez: Que continuasse a gente lá a ir e que aprendesse a ler.
3rd time - That we should keep coming, that we should pray the rosary to Our Lady so that the war would end, for only she could help. She stayed only a short while; there were already many people.
3a vez - Que continuasse a vir, que rezasse o terço a N. Senhora para que acabasse a guerra pois só ela é que podia valer. Demorava-se pouco; já estava muita gente.
4th time - I was arrested
4a vez - Fui presa
The 5th time - She does not remember.
Da 5a vez - Não se recorda.
The 6th - That people should not offend Our Lord any more, for he was already much offended. – That people should pray the rosary to Our Lady of the Rosary so that he would forgive us our sins, if we want to go to Heaven.
Da 6a - Que não ofendesse a gente mais a Nosso Senhor que ele já estava muito ofendido. – Que rezasse a gente o terço a Nossa Senhora do Rosário para que ele nos perdoasse os nossos pecados, querendo a gente ir para o Céu.
That a little chapel should be made there to the Lady of the Rosary, if we wished; that the war would end today and that they should expect our soldiers very soon.
Que fizesse ali uma capelinha à Senhora do Rosário, querendo; que a guerra acabava hoje e que esperassem pelos nossos militares muito breve.
[...]
[...]
First the head disappeared, then the body and the feet.
Desaparecia primeiro a cabeça, depois o corpo e os pés.
She saw next to the sun - something that looked like the face of a man and of a child.
Viu junto ao sol - uma coisa que parecia uma cara dum homem e dum menino.
20 [sic] - When did they speak to any priest about the matter?
20 [sic] - Quando falaram com qualquer padre sobre o assunto?
20 - It was not straight away. It was afterwards.
20 - Não foi logo. Foi depois.
21 [sic] - What did he say to them?
21 [sic] - O que lhes disse este?
21 - He asked her why she had not come and told him straight away.
21 - Este disse-lhe porque lhe não fora logo contar.
23 - Are they poor or comfortably off?
23 - São pobres ou remediadas?
23 - [...]
23 - [...]
24 - Do they usually pray the rosary every day?
24 - Costumam rezar o terço todos os dias?
24 - She knows how to pray the rosary and used to pray it sometimes, often, even with the sheep; now she prays it every day.
24 - Sabe rezar o terço e rezava-o às vezes, muita vez, mesmo com as ovelhas; agora reza-o todos os dias.
25 - Did they ever hear talk of Our Lady having appeared to soldiers?
25 - Ouviram falar alguma vez em que Nossa Senhora aparecera aos soldados?
25 - She does not remember when, but she has heard it said.
25 - Não se recorda quando mas já ouviu dizer.
26 - Had the parish priest asked them to pray the rosary for the soldiers?
26 - O sr. prior tinha pedido para rezarem o terço pelos soldados?
26 - She does not remember.
26 - Não se recorda.
27 - Can they read, or did they hear it read at home or anywhere else that Our Lady had appeared?
27 - Sabem ler ou ouviram em casa em alguma parte ler que Nossa Senhora aparecera?
27 - She cannot read.
27 - Não sabe ler.
28 - Whom did they first tell that they had seen Our Lady?
28 - A quem disseram pela primeira vez que viram Nossa Senhora?
28 - Jacinta spread it and she said yes.
28 - A Jacinta espalhou e ela disse que sim.
29 - Who are the parents and what are their names? What do they live on? Age, religious sentiments, do they pray the rosary at night at home or say grace?
29 - Quem são os pais e como se chamam? De que vivem? Idade, sentimentos religiosos, rezam o terço à noite em casa ou dão graças?
29 - Her mother can read and has read things about Our Lady, says the parish priest, and Lourdes - Missão abreviada*.
29 - A mãe sabe ler e tem lido coisas de Nossa Senhora, diz o prior, e Lourdes - Missão abreviada.
30 - Have they been told and do they know the story of Lourdes or La Salette or of Our Lady of Monserrate?
30 - Têm contado e sabem a história de Lourdes ou La Salette ou de Nossa Senhora de Monserrate?
30 - [...]
30 - [...]
31 - Are they alcoholics? What did they say to their daughters and to their son?
31 - São alcoólicos? O que disseram às filhas e ao filho?
31 - [...]
31 - [...]
32 - What did the Lady say each of the times?
32 - O que disse a Senhora de cada uma das vezes?
1st -
1ª -
2nd -
2ª -
3rd -
3ª -
4th -
4ª -
5th -
5ª -
6th -
6ª -
[...]
[...]
33 - Did the Lady say at what time she was coming, and on which days?
33 - A Senhora disse a que horas vinha e os dias?
33 - She never said at what time she was coming, but we used to go there at that time.
33 - Nunca disse a que horas vinha mas nós íamos lá àquelas horas.
[37-] The Lady told her a secret but she will not reveal it.
[37-] A Senhora disse-lhe um segredo mas ela não o revelará.
[38]
[38]
[38] Lúcia has already made her 1st communion.
[38] A Lúcia já fez a 1ª comunhão.
Interrogation of Francisco
Interrogatório do Francisco
1 - How old is he? Whose child is he?
1 - Quantos anos tem? De quem é filho?
1 - Francisco Marto - 9 years old - Jacinta's brother.
1 - Francisco Marto - de 9 anos - irmão da Jacinta.
2 - What were they doing when they saw the Lady?
2 - O que faziam quando viram a Senhora?
2 - He was minding the flock.
2 - Guardava o gado.
3 - Is it true that the boy chased the Image away with stones?
3 - É verdade o menino correr a Imagem à pedra?
[3] It was his brother who chased the Lady away last year.
[3] O irmão é que o ano passado correu a Senhora.
N. B. Jacinta says yes.
N. B. A Jacinta diz que sim.
4 - How did the Image appear?
4 - Como apareceu a Imagem?
5 - What clothes was she wearing and what did she say?
5 - Que vestidos trazia e o que disse?
6 - Did they all hear?
6 - Ouviram todos?
4 - It was sunny, they were passing by and he saw a woman dressed in white. He did not see lightning; it was Lúcia who saw it. The sheep were running off into the chickling peas and the maize, but the Lady said they should not worry, that the sheep would not knock anything down, nor eat. After the apparition they ate.
4 - Fazia sol, vinham a passar e viu uma mulher vestida de branco. Não viu relâmpagos; a Lúcia é que viu. As ovelhas fugiam para os chícharos e milho mas a Senhora disse que não se importassem que as ovelhas não tombavam, nem comiam. Depois da aparição comiam.
Lúcia says that the Lady did not say anything, unless it was to Jacinta, because she had already appeared to her.
A Lúcia diz que a Senhora não disse nada, só se foi à Jacinta porque ela lhe tinha já aparecido.
He (Francisco) saw the Image.
Via (Francisco) a Imagem.
She wore a mantle on her head and her dress was all white.
Trazia um manto na cabeça e o vestido era todo branco.
13 - What clothes did she wear the 1st time and the other times?
13 - Que fatos trazia ela da 1ª vez e das outras vezes?
[13 -] She always wore the same clothes; she was beautiful.
[13 -] Trazia sempre o mesmo fato, ela era bonita.
[...] 15 - Did they always see the spots on the sun?
[...] 15 - Viram sempre as manchas no sol?
[15 -] He saw St. Joseph and the Child Jesus in the sun.
[15 -] Viu S. José e o Menino Jesus no sol.
[...] 22- What did Our Lady say the 1st time?
[...] 22- O que disse N. Senhora da 1ª vez?
the 2nd
da 2ª
the 3rd
da 3ª
" 4th
“ 4ª
" 5th
“ 5ª
" 6th
“ 6ª
[22 -] He never heard her speak.
[22 -] Nunca a ouviu falar.
[24 -] Do they usually pray the rosary every day?
[24 -] Costumam rezar o terço todos os dias?
[24 -] They prayed the rosary when they had time.
[24 -] Rezavam o terço quando tinham vagar.